Transcript
from "The Fifth Estate"
Broadcast Wednesday October 29, 2003
BILL
WHITE
Interviewed
by: Bob McKeown
 Charles
"Bill" White
LET’S
GO BACK TO THE BEGINNING WHEN DID YOU FIRST MEET
JAMES BATH?
I
met him when I graduated from Business School
in nineteen seventy-eight. Came down to Houston
on an interview.
AND
WHAT KIND OF PERSON WAS HE?
I
was actually recruited from, from Harvard Business
School by Lan Bentsen, Senator Bentsen’s
son. And he found that I was a Navy Fighter Pilot
he said there was an Air
Force
Fighter Pilot in Houston that I should meet who
the Bentsen family and the Bush
family
were already in business with. And he said that
this fellow James R. Bath needed
someone
to run a series of real estate companies that
would be grub stake by not only
the
political families but also by some foreign Nationals,
the Saudis. And so I came down
to
an interview and met Jim.
SO,
THE INTRODUCTION WAS MADE BECAUSE YOU HAD THE
COMMON GROUND OF HAVING HAD BOTH BEEN PILOTS.
Exactly.
We’re both fighter pilots.
AND
AT THE TIME BATH WAS IN BUSINESS IN HOUSTON DOING
WHAT?
He
was in Business primarily with an Aircraft Brokerage
Company called JB and A which
stands
for Jim Bath and Associates. He also ran a company
in the same building called
Bin
Laden and Associates which Jim explained was a
procurement company for the
Saudis.
NOW
AT THAT POINT, HAD YOU EVER HEARD THE NAME BIN
LADEN?
No,
I had not.
AND
AS YOU INVESTIGATED AND FOUND OUT WHO THESE PEOPLE
WERE,
WHAT
DID YOU LEARN?
Well,
I learned that there was a relationship between
the Saudi Royals and the politicians
here
in the United States and that Bath was helping
to protect the Saudi Royal Family by
training
some of the Saudi Nationals who were at our Air
Force base as being trained as
Pilots.
We had a Prince who was the first foreign National
to fly on the first US Space
Shuttle.
We had other foreign Nationals too. Jim was functioning
as an intermediary
between
the Bushes and the Saudi Royal Family.
HOW
HAD JIM BATH BEEN ANNOINTED TO BE THIS INTERMEDIARY
BETWEEN THE SAUDIS ON ONE HAND AND FAMILIES LIKE
THE BUSHES ON THE OTHER?
Well,
Jim explained that in the early seventies when
he served in the Texas Air National
Guard
that George Bush Junior, our current President
had come on board along with
some
other Politicians’ children. This is during
the Vietnam War era and they became
drinking
buddies and good friends. And then in nineteen
seventy-six when, when W’s
Father
became CIA Director and the CIA was trying to
privatize some of their
subsidiaries,
their air affiliates, etc that Jim was actually
recommended to the CIA
Director,
George Senior by W. And that’s when the relationship
got established.
AT
THE POINT THAT YOU FIRST MET JIM BATH, HE WAS
NOT ONLY CONNECTED TO THE SAUDIS, TO THE BIN LADENS
BUT ALSO TO THE BUSHES.
That’s
correct.
"He
spent probably ninety-five percent of his time,
I’d call it hand-holding the
Arabs.
He bought a bank for them. He bought an airport
for them."
SO
IN A SENSE, AT THE POINT WHEN YOU FIRST MET HIM
WAS BATH THIS LINK BETWEEN THE BUSHES ON ONE SIDE
AND THE BIN LADEN’S IN SAUDI.
Right.
That link had already been established and Jim
was actually in an operational
mode.
He spent probably ninety-five percent of his time,
I’d call it hand-holding the
Arabs.
He bought a bank for them. He bought an airport
for them. He started an airline
for
them among other ventures in Houston, Texas and
was, the nominee or the front man
for
their ownership of these various entities. He
would spend ninety-nine percent of his
time
dealing with their interests while I was relegated
to running our real estate
development
company.
WHAT
WAS THE EXTENT OF THE INTEREST OF THE SAUDIS IN
AND AROUND HOUSTON? WHY DID THEY COME TO TEXAS
AT THIS TIME?
Well
they had a large presence here because of the
oil interest. And they had banking
interests
by virtue of Bush Senior’s association with
First International Bank which
subsequently
became Air First. And also John Connolly who was
a former Democrat who
turned
Republican and worked in the Nixon Administration
with Bush he ran First Citi-Bank.
We
also had James Baker and Baker, the Baker and
Bott’s Law Firm, so you
basically
had a confluence of political interests that were
friendly to the Saudi Royal
Family
doing business in Houston.
IN
THE MID SEVENTIES WHEN YOU FIRST CAME IN CONNECTION
WITH JIM,
WHAT
DID YOU LEARN THROUGH BATH ABOUT THE EXTENT OF
THE BUSH
CONNECTIONS
AND THE BUSH HISTORY WITH SAUDI ARABIA?
Well
Bath explained to me that he had been tapped by
George Senior to set up a quasi
private
aircraft firm that would basically engage in CIA-sponsored
activities funded by the
Saudi
Royal Family. He explained that the Saudis had
basically entered into a quid pro
quo
relationship with Bush and that Bush when he was
CIA Director worked with the
Head
of Saudi Intelligence and they trained the Palace
Guard to protect the Saudi Royal
Family
who was concerned about a fundamentalist revolution.
And
it was at that point I think that this thing got
kicked into high gear and the Saudis
agreed
to provide surreptitious funding to the United
States to fight secret wars in
Afghanistan
and Nicaragua on the one hand and Bush as Vice
President then sent
AWACS
and F-Fifteen Fighter Jets to Saudi Arabia to
support Saddam Hussein under the
psyche
that the enemy is my friend. We had the Iran-Iraq
War at the time. And so that’s,
that’s
really how it evolved.
TO
WHAT EXTENT DID PEOPLE LIKE BIN MAHFOUZ AND …
BIN LADEN SET UP THEIR OWN INFRA STRUCTURE IN
HOUSTON? DID THEY HAVE HOMES THERE? DID THEY HAVE
PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS THERE? HOW MUCH TIME DID
THEY SPEND THERE?
Yeah
they spent quite a bit of time here. When we say
they had interests the homes and
businesses
here, they were all almost invariably set up in
trust. There were, with
agreements
were drawn up by some of the big law firms in
town. And their ownership
was
always artfully hidden behind Nominees or front
people like Jim Bath or one of the
lawyers
who acted as a Trustee. They would fly into town.
Jim would entertain them.
They,
we had parties. There were social events.
SO
YOU WERE PART OF THIS ON OCCASION?
Jim
actually seemed to be grooming me. I was ten years
younger and his protégé and
rather
than take the airplane company employees, he seemed
to take me to all the
Chamber
of Commerce functions that George Bush was speaking
at and would take me
to
the lunches at the Ramada Club and take me to
the parties at the Big House that she
called
it, and seldom were in attendance at. Now the
Arabs there were very different in
their
personalities. Salem Bin Laden was very Westernized.
He wore Western clothes.
He
spoke English, was very articulate. He liked to
entertain and was the Master of
Ceremonies.
Whereas bin Mahfouz typically wore the traditional
Saudi garb. He was
very
reclusive. He was not fluent in English. And so
there was a very great disparity
between
you know the two individuals.
WHAT
DID YOU LEARN TO BE THE, THE BUSINESS TIES AT
THAT POINT
BETWEEN
THE BUSHES AND BIN MAHFOUZ AND BIN LADEN?
Well,
Bath had told me that he had used Saudi money
to fund George Bush Junior’s start
into
the Energy business.
THIS
IS THE ARBUSTO OPERATION?
Yes,
the Arbusto Partnerships that started in Midland,
Texas in the late seventies, early
eighties.
WHAT
DID THE DOCUMENTS SHOW?
Well
I have copies of Jim’s personal financial
statements to show that he maintains a
revolving
line of credit for the Bin Laden Family.
AND
HOW MUCH?
It’s
six to seven million on the statements that I
have. And then on schedules that show
his
partnership interests, he shows a personal partnership
interest of twenty-five thousand dollars
invested in Arbusto Seventy-Nine and another twenty-five
thousand dollar
investment
in Bush Eighty. But those only represent his personal
share of the Arab
money
that went into those ventures.
DO
YOU HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE OF HOW MUCH MONEY THE SAUDIS
PUT IN?
Well
he told me it was in excess of, you know, a million
dollars. But I don’t have any
documents
that support that. I just have you know his word
to take from that.
AND
TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, HOW IMPORTANT WOULD THAT MONEY
HAVE BEEN TO GEORGE W. BUSH?
Well,
at the time I could tell you as a fledgling entrepreneur
it would have been of critical
importance.
HE’S
JUST STARTING OUT. SET THE SCENE FOR US HERE.
AT WHAT STAGE OF HIS CAREER WAS GEORGE W. BUSH
BACK IN NINETEEN SEVENTY-NINE?
Yeah,
nineteen seventy-nine as I understand it he was
a fledgling entrepreneur just trying
to
get a business off the ground and obviously it
would seed capital to get into the Oil
exploration
or drilling business and it was very expensive
even back then to buy land
leases
and to rent Oil rigs and Wild Caters to drill.
So it took, it was all capital-driven.
AND
ONE OF THE FIRST IN WAS JIM BATH.
Yeah.
Well, Jim Bath was nominee for the Saudis. I mean
Bath was very forthright with
me
when we went into business together in nineteen
seventy-eight. And he said Bill, I
really,
I come from a poor background, I have no money
of my own and this relationship
with
the Bushes and the Saudis is of paramount importance
to me because I derive all of
my
capital and all of my business capabilities from
that relationship.
NOW
JIM BATH HAS EFFECTIVELY DENIED HE PUT SAUDI MONEY
INTO GEORGE W. BUSH’S COMPANIES AT THAT POINT.
I
don’t know that he’s denied it or hasn’t.
I know that Time Magazine when they began
to
investigate this got him to go on record, or got
George Bush Junior to go on record
having
denied been in business with Bath just saying
they were just personal friends and
once
they were presented with these documents then
he recanted, Bush recanted and
admitted
that Bath had put money in. But my understanding
is in the aftermath of the
Nine-Eleven,
the White House denied that any of that money
was Saudi money. They
were
maintaining that it was all Bath’s money.
AND
HOW DO YOU KNOW THERE WAS SAUDI MONEY THERE?
Well
I know that it was Saudi money because Bath had
no money of his own. We were in business together.
I saw his personal financial statements. I knew
the amount of cash he
had
available any given time. And he also confided
in me that the money invested both in our Real
Estate business and in W. his Energy business
was Saudi money. That was the
only
money there was.
SO
EVEN THE FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS YOU SEE REFLECTED
IN THOSE
FINANCIAL
STATEMENTS HE WOULD NOT HAVE HAD THAT AS …
CASH?
No,
if you look at his financial statement it’ll
show that he has maybe fourteen thousand
dollars
in cash. He has millions of dollars in assets
but the only cash available is this Bin
Laden
revolving line of credit.
SO
THERE’S NO QUESTION IN YOUR MIND WHATSOEVER
THAT WHATEVER
WENT
INTO GEORGE W. BUSH’S COMPANIES FROM JIM
BATH WAS MONEY …
One-hundred
percent of it was Saudi money.
AND
GEORGE W. BUSH WOULD HAVE BEEN AWARE OF THAT?
Oh,
absolutely. Bush was responsible for Bath’s
relationship, you know, from the onset.
So
of course he was aware.
LET’S,
LET’S LEAP AHEAD HERE. WHAT, WHAT CAN YOU
TELL US ABOUT HARKEN ENERGY?
I’m
not very knowledgeable about Harken Energy. I
just know that Arbusto went through
several
iterations and became Harken Energy and my understanding
is that again the
Arabs
came in and bailed him out of some bad business
ventures and bad business
decisions
and that he was able to cash in his chips prematurely
before the stock nose-dived.
And
what’s interesting to me in that light is
that the first Attorney with Baker and
Botts
had attempted to compel me to cover up this whole
story –
LET’S
TALK A LITTLE MORE SPECIFICALLY ABOUT BATH’S
RELATIONSHIP WITH BIN MAHFOUZ AND BIN LADEN. HOW,
HOW DID YOU OBSERVE BATH’S RELATIONSHIP WITH
THOSE TWO MEN? WHAT, WHAT DID YOU SEE OF IT AND
CAN YOU CHARACTERIZE IT FOR US?
I
can characterize it. Bath was their Business representative.
And he would buy the
Bank
in their behalf. He would hire the President.
He’d served on the Board of
Directors.
He purchased the Airport on their behalf. He set
up a Management infra-
structure
to maintain the Airport and to operate the Airport.
And so he really was their,
their
figurehead. A lot of these enterprises cannot
legally be owned by foreign Nationals.
If
you have an aircraft and want to have it FAA-certified,
it’s got to be owned by a US
citizen.
And so by Bath stepping in to the fray as the
ostensible owner of that aircraft, the
Saudis
were able to control and manage businesses in
the United States that otherwise
that
they could not have. So he was the point man in
that respect for their Business
interests.
ON
THE OTHER SIDE OF IT, DID YOU SEE BATH IN HIS
RELATIONSHIP WITH
GEORGE
BUSH SENIOR AND GEORGE W. BUSH?
Yes,
I did. It was very limited. The Bushes made a
point of never interfacing personally
with
the Saudis. It was always done with a wink and
a nod. But I recall, Jim was the
Chairman
of the Aviation Committee for the Houston Chamber
of Commerce and he
would
schedule Speakers for the luncheons down there
and would always take me as his
protégé
down to the luncheons. And I remember riding down
to the Chamber meeting –
I
think it was nineteen eighty – and he said
Bill, I can’t wait for you to meet the guest
Speaker
that I have arranged for the Chamber luncheon.
He said the two of you are cut
from
the same cloth. He said you’re both Fighter
Pilots. You’re both Harvard Business
School
Graduates. You’re going to love this guy.
And so when I came to the luncheon,
he
introduced me to George Bush, our current President.
And Bush gave a talk. Jim
introduced
him as his friend from the Air National Guard
days and so that was the one
time
that I met George Bush Junior. And then George
Bush Senior, I met at a luncheon at
the
Ramada Club when he was Vice President. He came
in. Jim and I were sitting on a
sofa
facing the elevator bank and the elevator doors
opened and then the Vice President
walked
off with his Secret Service entourage and he just
looked at us and said Jim - and
kind
of winked at him and nodded - and then went off.
It was kind of a knowing look that
they
were very guarded about any public display of
familiarity.
HAVE
YOU SEEN IT AFFECT THE PRESIDENT’S PERFORMANCE,
DO YOU BELIEVE?
Oh
I feel certain it’s affected his performance
and just hearing about the Bin Laden family
members
in this Country who were flown out of the Country
and he fact that the
Administration
blocked the FBI and IA investigations into the
Bin Laden family under the
auspices
of - oh gee the family are all patriotic citizens
except for this one bad apple
Osama
– I mean I just have a hard time buying off
on that and wondering if the money
that
changed hands back during my experiences with
Bath hasn’t influenced or clouded
or
even compromised the President’s ability
to wage War against Terrorism. I just can’t
imagine
how he can be an objective arbitrator of the Bin
Laden family’s activities when in
fact
he’s taken money from them that’s never
been reported publicly and I think he’s
compromised.
And that’s of great concern to me. And I
think that’s a great concern to
the
families of the victims of the Nine-Eleven tragedy.
HOW
DIFFICULT HAS JIM BATH MADE THE PAST FIFTEEN YEARS
FOR YOU?
Well,
when Bath and I first had our conversation of
his request that I cooperate in a cover-up, he
said you’ve got a choice. He said you can
either do this voluntarily or the Bank that’s
laundering the Saudi money and I are going to
inundate you in frivolous lawsuits and we’re
going to make your life a goddamn living hell.
Those were his exact words and he
said now I know you being Mom and Apple Pie think
that America’s about truth and justice
but that’s nothing but a bunch of horse petui.
He said if we sue you, number one you’re
not going to have money to pay the lawyers to
defend yourself against these lawsuits
and number two in the unlikely event that you
could ever get legal representation, all
it would take is a call from George Bush to these
Republican Judges who are beholding
to him his political appointees and he said you’ll
never get a chance to tell this story
to a Jury. You’ll never even get a day in
Court.
HE
QUOTES THE NAME OF GEORGE BUSH –
Oh
absolutely.
SENIOR
OR JUNIOR?
Senior.
He said that he would call the political appointed
Judges and I would never get
due
process. And that really is what motivated me
to fight the fight in the courts because
I
couldn’t believe in the aftermath of all
of us risking our lives fighting for the system
that
we
could be denied our Rights of Due Process under
Law. I just couldn’t believe that.
And,
and unfortunately I thought it was a bluff, but
it turned out to be true because what
what
he predicted is precisely what happened.
I
thought it was he who was blowing smoke. And so
I resisted and I said Jim, I’m not
going
to sue you, I’m not going to go report these
Saudi dealings to the DA’s Office. I just
don’t
want to be in Business with you anymore. And I
called my Attorney and I didn’t
instruct
him to file a lawsuit. I said please look at our
Partnership agreement and find out
how
I can become a Businessman, independent of Jim
Bath. I just don’t want to be
involved
in all this. Well, I never had that luxury because
he and the Bank that was
laundering
the Saudi money inundated me in lawsuits. I had
four criminal charges. And I
think
twenty-eight civil lawsuits that were filed against
me concurrently. And it just you
know
it dominated my life. And fortunately I was able
to get legal representation, the best
lawyers
in Houston on a contingency fee basis took up
my case, filed counter claims
against
Bath alleging this Saudi influence, peddling with
the Bush family, although in
retrospect
when I read my own legal pleadings, the lawyers
were very careful to remove a
lot
of the references to the threats you know with
using the Bin Laden, the Bin Mahfouz
the
Bush name. And I would ask my own lawyers, you
know why aren’t you stating
succinctly
the nature of the Bath’s thread. And they’d
say well Bill, you know we don’t
want
to make the Judges angry. We have to be very careful.
AND
IT WASN’T THAT THEY DIDN’T BELIEVE THOSE
LINKS WERE TRUE, IT WAS
JUST
THE OPPOSITE. THEY BELIEVED THEM –
They
believed them they’re true and they’re
afraid of backlash from the Judges. Yeah,
one
of the republican judges who poured me out every
case, Judge Lewis Moore, my
Lawyer
John O’Neill of Porter and Clements was actually
his campaign manager. And
when
he found out the case was assigned to him he said
Bill, we’ve got this case made-in-
the-shade.
He said this guy you know I’m his campaign
manager. I raise funds for his
campaign.
No problem. And then we’d get into the courtroom
and be poured out without
a
trial. And he’d go the Judge must have gone
crazy, I can’t believe, he’s never treated
me
this way.
WHERE
IS JIM BATH TODAY?
He’s
in hiding in Houston. He’s in hiding.
HE
HAS NOT BEEN SEEN?
Oh
he’s been seen. I ran into him at the grocery
store about nine months ago. But he
was
very prominent with the Chamber and social circles
and after Bin Mahfouz was
indicted
by the District Attorney in nineteen ninety-one,
paid a two-hundred and twenty-five
million
dollar fine and kicked out of the Country and
his Bank, BCCI and NCB shut
down,
Bath basically was put on ice by Bush because
he became a political liability. And
if
you call his Aircraft Brokerage Company, JB and
A, they’ll tell you we know who Jim
Bath
is but we haven’t seen him in years and we
don’t know how to contact him. So he’s,
he’s
really being kept on ice.
AND
WHERE DO YOU THINK PHYSICALLY HE IS?
I
think he’s at his ranch in Simmons Bottoms.
He’s got a ranch out there with a landing
strip
and I see his airplane flying over every day so
I know he’s still flying.
WHEN
GEORGE BUSH SENIOR WAS REPLACED AS DIRECTOR OF
THE CIA,
WHERE
DID HE GO …?
He
came to Houston and he became affiliated with
a Bank in Houston called FIB, First
International
Bank. And that was, that was the bank that Bath
used to deposit the Saudi
money.
That’s where the Bin Laden revolving line
of credit was. The name changed in
nineteen
eighty to First International Bank from FIB but
it was the same bank.
AND
YOU SAY HE WAS CONNECTED WITH THIS BANK. WHAT
WAS GEORGE
BUSH
SENIOR’S INTEREST ..?
He
was Chairman of the Executive Committee of the
Bank.
SO
THAT’S MORE THAN CONNECTED.
Well,
more than connected. Yeah.
FUNDAMENTAL
ROLE.
He
was the principal player.
SO
NO COINCIDENCE AS FAR AS YOU’RE CONCERNED
THAT THE SAUDI MONEY
AND
THE MONEY THAT BATH’S DOING BUSINESS WITHIN,
ENDS UP AT
GEORGE
BUSH SENIOR’S BANK.
No
this is no coincidence at all. This is all arranged.
It was all arranged at the time that
Bush
made this quid pro quo relationship with the Saudis.
I mean, my understanding of it
is
that Bath represented the Bush interests and Bin
Laden-Bin Mahfouz interchangeably
represented
the Saudi Royal Family interests and people tried
to vilify the Bin Laden
family
or the Bin Mahfouz family but, they have a very
patriarchal society over there
according
to Bath and neither of those families sneeze without
the Saudi Royals’
blessing.
I mean everything they do is at the beholding
at the Saudi Royal Family. As a
matter
of fact, Bin Mahfouz’ Bank NCB is the only
Bank that was not nationalized in
Saudi
Arabia. All the rest of the Banks were not, nationalized
in seventy-four except his
Bank
which is privately owned. That’s where the
Saudi Royals keep all their personal
money.
SO
AGAIN, WHEN YOU GOT BIN MAHFOUZ AND BIN LADEN
TIGHTLY CONNECTED
TO
THE SAUDI ROYAL FAMILY ON ONE SIDE –
Right.
GEORGE
BUSH SENIOR, SENIOR AND HIS SON ON THE OTHER SIDE,
AND IN THE MIDDLE JIM BATH –
Right.
THERE’S
NO QUESTION IN YOUR MIND THAT THESE WERE ALL INTER-RELATED?
THEY, COULD THEY NOT HAVE BEEN ARM’S LENGTH
RELATIONSHIPS?
No.
YOU’RE
SURE IF BATH WAS DOING BUSINESS WITH THE SAUDIS,
SURE HE WAS DOING BUSINESS WITH THE BUSHES, BUT
NEVER THE TWAIN WOULD MEET.
There’s
no way. I mean Bath confided in me. And told me
every bit of evidence I’ve
seen,
I’ve met all the players, the Bushes, the
Saudis, I mean everything fits very
consistent.
AND
THAT WOULD POSITION JIM BATH NOW.
Absolutely.
He went from a non descript, nobody who had no
capital, no Political
connections
to this high-rolling Business man who’s managing
banks and fleets of
airplanes.
You know, for the wealthiest individuals on the
planet, and that doesn’t happen
by
accident. I mean Jim’s a very capable, personable
guy but he doesn’t have the
pedigree,
the credentials, or the connections on his own
to, to explain any of this.
SO
HOW WAS IT HE WAS, HE WAS CHOSEN TO BE THIS EXULTED
ONE?
Well
if you recall back in the mid-seventies the CIA
came under fire for trying to
assassinate
Fidel Castro and for engineering elections in
Latin America and putting
friendly
Dictators in power and so you had the Church and
Pike committees in Congress.
The
Intelligence committees investigated these CIA
activities and they issued a stinging
report
and said that it incompatible for a Democratic
Government of a Republic to be
engaged
in these KGB type activities. And so what Bush
did as CIA Director, rather than
just
you know terminate these activities he said let’s
privatize them. And so he began to
look
for people that could form quasi public or private
corporations that would take control
of
these assets but still do the CIA’s bidding
and he obviously needed an Aviation guy
and
he went to his Son who was in an Aviation Squadron.
All the Pilots like myself had
top-secret
security clearances, were clearly patriots, they’ve
been vetted by the FBI and
so
he asked W. You know is there a guy down there
who we could bring in to operate an
Air
proprietary deal with the Saudis. And so George
recommended his drinking buddy,
Jim
Bath.
AND
THIS IS WHAT JIM BATH TOLD?
Jim’s
a very capable guy. Very personable guy. He’s
somebody that I probably in
retrospect
would have chosen you know for that responsibility
had I known back then.
AND
IT WAS THROUGH THAT CONNECTION WITH THE BUSHES
THAT HE
ATTRACTED
THE ATTENTION OF HIS SON?
Right,
well he was introduced to the Saudis. That there
was an arranged marriage.
AND
AGAIN INTRODUCED BY –
By
the Bushes –
…
FOR THEIR REPRESENTATIVES?
Absolutely.
Yeah. Absolutely.
WHEN
YOU LOOK BACK OVER ALL OF THIS HOW MUCH HAS IT
COST YOU IN FINANCIAL AND OTHER WAYS?
Well
it’s cost me virtually everything, financially.
I lost my business, all my real estate
holdings,
all of my assets were conveyed to Bath in the
lawsuits, my house was fore-closed
on
because the mortgage was held by the Bank that
was laundering the Saudi
money,
all my property was sold at cost wholesale, and
we paid a terrible price. Then the
irony
was that during this litigation process even they
initially tried to compel me to
cooperate
in the cover-up when I refused they began to offer
me money and Banking
business,
and a package worth millions of dollars if I would
only sign what they called a
Settlement
Agreement. But I explained to my Lawyer, when
the Settlement Agreement in
my
eyes it was a hush money agreement. It said basically
that we could never have this
conversation
that we could never disclose the Bush-Saudi relationship
and I felt to take
that
money and to sign that Agreement would have been
to basically spit on the graves of
all
of my friends who died in Vietnam and were fighting
for you know our, our Oath to
protect
the Constitution. So it’s been a heavy price
but I really feel like some of us have a
destiny
and for whatever reason I didn’t choose this
destiny but I was thrust in it and I’m
trying
to do my part to get the truth out. And again
there’s no really, no ill will toward Jim
Bath
or to George Bush. It’s just a matter of
getting the truth out on the table and let the
consequences
evolve. But I think the truth’s important.
HAS
THIS BEEN GOING ON FOR MORE THAN A DECADE AND
A HALF
Yeah.
IT’S
JUST RIGHT THERE AT THE FOREFRONT OF YOUR …
Well
what is? It’s just something that you know
in some respects it’s like a tar baby
because
you think you’ve put it behind you and then
Nine-Eleven happens and all of a
sudden,
it surfaces again and it’s germane in its
material. And so again I almost feel
like
it’s divine destiny that and it’s really
made the fight meritorious in a sense because
now
people do care. They’re starting to wonder
about the integrity and the motives of
these
people and so this, what happened is now relevant.
I mean it’s extremely relevant.
And
so in that sense it’s, it validated the fight
we fought because I’ve been told even by
our
own Lawyers that most people in our situation,
and they have a skeleton or they have
a
problem or they’re doing drugs or they have
girlfriends or something and so when
they’re
confronted with that they sign the Settlement
Agreement, they take the money and
then
the story never gets out. So, in this case because
we fought the fight, now at least
the
truth has a chance of getting out and being laid
bare.
YOU
SAY WATCING THE EVENT UNFOLD AFTER NINE-ELEVEN
– YOU REALIZED HOW RELEVANT YOUR EXPERIENCE
AND YOUR KNOWLEDGE NOW ARE –
Yes.
WHAT
DO YOU THINK IS THE ESSENTIAL RELEVANCE OF WHAT
YOU KNOW AND WHAT YOU HAVE GONE THROUGH, AND WHAT’S
GOING ON NOW?
I
don’t believe that Bush as President can
be an objective arbitrator of the war on
terrorism.
The Bin Ladens and the Saudis are obviously involved,
fifteen of the nineteen
terrorists
were Saudis. The Saudis are known to have been
funding these Islamic
charities
that have funded the Terrorists including the
National Commercial Bank. The
same
people that were dealing business with Bath at
Bush’s request and funding Bush’s
business
interests. Bush moved heaven and earth obviously
calling in chips with Houston
Judges
to keep this information kept quiet and the Saudis
are in an ideal position
basically
to blackmail the President of the United States
and to quash any investigation
into
their activities, funding of Islamic charities
because of the fact that they’ve had Bush
on
the payroll back in the late seventies and early
eighties. I can tell you in the Military
that
if you know any potential conflict of interest
you won’t get a security clearance
because
you’re subject to that type of blackmail.
We have somebody in the Oval Office
who’s
subject to blackmail. That disturbs me. And that’s
why it’s relevant.
IN
TERMS OF THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE BUSHES AND
THE SAUDIS – WAS THERE SUPPORT FOR HIS PRESIDENTIAL
CAMPAIGN?
My
understanding from Bath was that they were making
campaign contributions by taking
brief
cases full of cash to the law firms. They would
give the cash to the lawyers and
then
each of the lawyers in turn would make a thousand
dollar campaign contribution to
Bush
or Bentsen or whomever.
WHICH
WOULD PRESUMABLY BE AGAINST ELECTORAL LAW –
Well,
it is against the law but it’s obviously
covered by virtue of the Attorneys making the
contributions.
And that’s my understanding of how it worked.
Again I didn’t see the
money
changing hands.
BUT
BATH EXPLAINED THIS TO YOU?
Yes.
IN
THOSE TERMS?
And
he also did it himself in his own dealings with
the City of Houston. He even
arranged
for the employees to make thousand dollar campaign
contributions to the City,
the
Houston City Council men who sat on the Aviation
Committee and ordered to grant him a FBI Franchise
and then he would reimburse everyone who made
the thousand
dollar
contribution which is the limit in cash.
WHICH
AGAIN WOULD BE AGAINST THE LAW.
Well
of course it’s, you know it’s against
the law. But that’s the way he operated.
And he
told
me when he did that he was mimicking the Saudi
funding of the Bush campaign.
WE
VISITED THIS EARLIER BUT TO WHAT EXTENT WERE YOU
PART OF THIS SOCIAL RELATIONSHIP WITH THE SAUDIS?
HOW OFTEN WOULD YOU SEE THEM? UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES?
CAN YOU DESCRIBE HOW THEY, HOW THEY ACTED PERSONALLY,
PRIVATELY?
Oh,
yes I can. Salem Bin Laden was very gregarious.
He was very Westernized. He
wore
Western clothing, very articulate, spoke English
well. And he was a gad-fly, an
international
playboy. He would buzz into town with an entourage
and he would have a
party
over at the Big House and a lot of the big business
men, attorneys in Houston
would
come to these parties. And he would entertain.
He’d play the piano. He’d sing.
Have
cocktails and it was quite interesting. There
was some unseemly contact as well. I
think
one occasion one of my secretaries came into work
about an hour and a half late
and
she told me that Jim Bath had called her at eleven
o’clock at night and said that
Salem
Bin Laden was at the hotel and he was lonesome
and would she go over and
entertain
him for a while. And, then he would take the Arabs
to Las Vegas and arrange
for
prostitutes and things like that. I was fortunately
never part of the unseemly side of it
but
I did interface with him directly
YOU
SAY THE BIG HOUSE, WHICH HOUSE IS THAT?
This
is a big mansion, it was actually three houses.
There was a central estate that had a
swimming
pool that was shaped like a kidney bean with an
aisle in the middle of it and a
bridge
across where tennis courts it was right on the
bayou, three and a half acres and
the
house was recently sold to a big restaurant owner
in Houston.
TO
YOUR KNOWLEDGE DO THE BIN LADENS AND OR BIN MAHFOUZ’
STILL HAVE RESIDENCES THERE?
I
have no knowledge of that. I believe that after
Bin Mahfouz was indicted in the early
nineties
that they begin to liquidate his holdings here.
I heard through a Lebanese source
in
the late nineties that he had re-entered the United
States and was re-acquiring assets
and
doing business here again. But I had no personal
experience or knowledge of that.
NOW
THE, THE FIRM IN WHICH YOU WERE IN BUSINESS WITH
JIM BATH WAS A REAL ESTATE DEVELOPMENT COMPANY.
That’s
correct.
DOING
WHAT SORTS OF PROJECTS AND HOW, HOW PROFITABLE?
Well
we were building multi family residential projects
- basically five to eight million dollar
projects.
And we were also working on Corporate Aviation
facilities with both Airports.
And
our businesses were generally profitable. We were
very conservative. In our
approach
and our financing we had adequate equity capital.
And I was very zealous in
getting
low interest rate mortgages through housing finance
corporations as opposed to
high
interest money at thirteen and a half percent.
So, when the market downturn
occurred
and in eighty-six, our projects relative to other
developers were going very well.
The
Bank in fact they put me on their Board of Directors
for Business Development and
put
me on the Board of the Arthritis Foundation and
we were going to steer all of their
foreclosed
properties to us to have us manage them and do
the workouts. They were
very
confident in our capabilities.
SO
WHAT WAS IT THAT LED TO THE RIFT BETWEEN YOU AND
BATH?
Bath
was the funding partner. Bath sent down an interest
rate invoice on a five-hundred
and
fifty thousand personal loan that he had at the
Bank. Had a twenty-seven thousand
dollar
interest payment due and it said CW can you help
with this question mark. And, I
got
this and I thought gee this is peculiar. The guy
that sends the money down to fund
our
business is asking if we can help pay one of his
personal loans to the Bank. And so I
threw
it in the hold basket and thought nothing of it
and then the Banker called me, Jim
McNutt
from InterFirst Bank and said Bill, Jim Bath said
you’re going to make this
payment
for him. And I said well Jim, you know if I had
the money I’d be happy to do it. I
just
don’t have the money. And he said well I’ll
have Bath call you. And that’s when Bath
came
down to the Conference Room and said Partner,
I need you to help me make this
payment
I’ve borrowed money from the Arabs to secure
this personal loan at the Bank,
I’m
having trouble making this quarterly interest
payment. If I don’t make it, the Bank’s
going
to cash the Arab Certificate of Deposit in and
he said you don’t understand how
things
work in Saudi Arabia. He said if you steal a six-pack
at a Seven-Eleven in the
United
States, you get a lawyer and you have a Trial
and the Merits he said but over in
Saudi
Arabia if you steal an apple from a fruit stand
they summarily cut your hand off at
the
wrist. He said if the Arabs find out I’ve
stolen a half a million dollars of their money,
they’re
going to cut off my private parts. And he said
when Bush finds about it, he said
ball
game over. He said I’m going to lose all
my business interests, I’ll lose the
wherewithal
to our fund our real estate companies. I’ll
take you down with me. So
Partner
you gotta help me. And, and that’s when I
said Jim, you’ve told me you’ve
committed
a misappropriation error of money. I said that’s
a felony. I said you can’t
expect
me to commit a felony to cover up your felony
because he suggested that I divert
money
from our real estate partnerships to pay his personal
note. But we had third party
investors
in those deals and that wasn’t our money
to spend on our personal notes. And
that’s
what caused the rift between the two of us. It’s
my refusal to do that.
AND
TRIGGERED THE TWENTY-EIGHT DIFFERENT LAWSUITS
AGAINST YOU BY HIM.
Exactly.
But that was the methodology to try to compel
me to do this against my will. He
said
I’m going to George Bush and I and the banker
are going to compel you to basically
steal
money from your own companies and partnerships
to cover up my theft of the Saudi
money.
And I said you’re telling me you’re
going to use the Court system to compel an
innocent
person to commit a felony? That’s why I thought
it was a bluff. I couldn’t believe it. But
that’s what he said he was going to do. Bush
called the Judges and I’d never get
a
day in Court. I couldn’t believe it.
NOW
WHEN YOU SAY BUSH CALLED IN IOU’S FOR THE
JUDGES -
Right.
DO
YOU HAVE ANY DIRECT EVIDENCE CONDUCTED BY HIM
IN ANY OF THOSE?
No.
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